Steven Pesavento 00:05
This is The Investor Mindset podcasts. And I'm Steven Pesavento. For as long as I can remember, I've been obsessed with understanding how we can think better, how we can be better, and how we can do better. And each episode we explore lessons on motivation and mindset for the most successful real estate investors and entrepreneurs in the nation.

Steven Pesavento 00:24
Alright guys, welcome back to the Investor Mindset podcast. I'm your host, Steve Pesavento. And each week, we share mindset tips, and real estate investing strategies to help you take your business and your investment portfolio to the next level. And today, I'm very excited about a couple of friends of mine in the studio, Christine, and Danny, How're you guys doing?e neistisristhrsHey,

Danny Bellish 00:47
great, Steven, thanks for having us. We really appreciate it.

Steven Pesavento 00:50
I've known these guys for a while they were instrumental in helping develop some brand identity and get a lot of clarity. And that really comes from their background Christina Danny Baelish, our New York City advertising executives to in real estate investors. And they've spent over a decade managing multi million dollar marketing budgets helping brands like BMW, Samsung, IKEA, Pfizer, Hiatt develop and implement it of innovative brand strategies, and a lot, lot more. And we're going to talk all about marketing, about the importance of it about how it can make an impact in your business and your career in whatever you're doing. And all of this is super critical, as you are growing as an individual, because marketing is built into everything you do, don't you guys think?

Christine Bellish 01:38
100%. Yeah,

Danny Bellish 01:39
it's so vital for especially entrepreneurs and new business owners and starters, to understand why it's so important to be building a brand and a brand identity. Because that trickles down into the DNA of everything that you do, and all of your communication with any consumer that you can be talking to. So it's really important to be thoughtful about that.

Steven Pesavento 02:02
Yeah, executives who don't really understand that marketing is everything, when it comes to business are really missing out. So I'm hoping for those of you not in the marketing space, you can take away a couple things. And those of you who are already experts in marketing might learn a thing or two as well. So let's dive in. You know, so many of our listeners are business owners or executives, you know, in this business world, things are changing, things are growing, and marketing as is at the core of a lot of the success that people are having. And you know, as the world changes, we need to change with it. So let's get out of the way. Some definitions. What is marketing? And why is it important?

Christine Bellish 02:42
Yeah, so I think it's really interesting when we talk about defining marketing, because I think when a lot of people think marketing, they immediately think sales, right? And people use it interchangeably, because they are so closely related. But marketing is really all about building awareness and consideration for your product or service or brands, right, it's getting people interested in what you're doing. And it can include like organic efforts, and also paid efforts. And it should definitely be informed by market research, right? Like you should always be measuring, paying attention to what's going on in the marketplace. And using best practices. Sales is really a result of your marketing efforts. So that's actually converting the leads that you've generated through marketing efforts into profits, and then turning your customers into repeat customers, and then also into advocates for your brand, your product or service.

Steven Pesavento 03:35
Yeah. It's Yeah, it's interesting, because a lot of people will say they're synonymous, and you can absolutely sell using some of the same tactics and marketing. But marketing is at the higher level, I always think of it like a funnel. Marketing is about bringing people in at different levels, through the marketing journey, you're bringing them deeper and deeper in through that process, you are subtly selling them in. But marketing is different than sales. So, you know, in what ways is marketing different than sales? A lot of people will think, hey, you know, just like I said, hey, they're there. They're really well connected. But it's different. How?

Danny Bellish 04:16
That's a great question. And I think it it stems from it stems from communication, right. And it stems from branding and brand identity, which, you know, we work a lot with when, you know, we're in our corporate advertising background, we worked with some of the largest fortune 500 brands to help create and implement their brand identity in their communication. So just like you said, it is a funnel and there are many steps in that funnel from awareness, consideration, action, right? Then it gets into loyalty and then advocacy, right? So you want to make sure that when you're working All your way down through that marketing funnel, that you're being really thoughtful about your communication with every consumer that you're speaking to. So it could be outbound, and it could be inbound. And you want to think about spreading your message to the right person at the right time. And I and I think when it comes to the difference between, you know, marketing and sales, specifically, marketing is really, you putting your brand out into the world, and sales becomes a little bit more of that tactical action based piece that comes at the end of it. So when you're thinking about marketing, from the very beginning, you want to identify first who you are and who you want to represent yourself to be, or your company. And you also want to be really thoughtful about who your target audiences, when we are in our advertising jobs, we get very specific about who that target is, and actually create an avatar for that individual. So that we can help pinpoint where we should be reaching those individuals. How, who, when and where. So we could say, you know, that we are real estate investors, like many of your, you know, listeners are, and that individual on average is, you know, between the ages of 35 to 65, they enjoy, you know, luxury trips, they are accredited individuals. And then we go through the layers of where are these people most likely to be consuming content, where are they spending their time what other hobbies do they have outside of real estate investing, and it helps us really be able to pinpoint where and when we should be reaching them before, so

Steven Pesavento 06:53
So let me cut in here. So that is really, really important. Getting together that archetype of who it is that you're going to serve, how you're going to serve them. Before we go there, I want to kind of step back marketing really sets up sales marketing is that front end is to bring in people, and it's really important, a lot of people screw this up, a lot of people screw up in real estate, a lot of people screw up in business in general. But if people, if people don't know you, they can't have the opportunity to trust you. And people do business with people they trust. And so there's a lot of different channels, there's a lot of different ways people can get involved doing marketing. And when I talk about marketing, people think, Oh, you're talking about social media, or you're talking about Facebook, or you're talking about this, they usually think of the channel. But it's really important to understand as we're getting deep into this topic, that marketing starts at the the highest level of we're trying to communicate an idea out to people in order to set up the sales process down the line. And in an online world, you might be able to sell 100% online without talking to a person, the marketing really brings that person to the table ready to make that transition. But you started touching on something that is so critically important. And a lot of people screw this up. A lot of people who are in marketing for a long time, are not doing a great job of knowing who they're looking to serve. And you know, just to share a little story that you guys know really well. And I think the audience has heard it. For those of you been listening for a while we ran into a challenge. When we were running Vaughn Finch homes, that we realize the ideal client we were serving was not our current client, it was not the person that we wanted to work with. So we went through this whole process of defining an ideal client, and we've got some episodes on that we'll link to them in the show notes. But when you once you've identified who you're going to serve, you really start needing to understand what are those different characteristics of that archetype? So you started talking about some of those, like their age range, what they like to do, maybe their income level some of those different demographic and psychographic type characteristics. Talk to us a little bit more about why that's so important to understand in order to craft a good message to start building that relationship at scale.

Christine Bellish 09:13
It's it really goes into being able to connect with people in a genuine and authentic way, right. And there are a million stats that are out there about the effectiveness of sharing a message with people in a genuine and authentic way. And the only way that you can connect with someone on that level is to know more about them, right? So you need to think how they're thinking. You need to meet them where they are, and you need to speak to them in a way that is going to resonate with them.

Danny Bellish 09:43
So when we're doing an analysis on a corporate level also, one thing to keep in mind is it's also okay to have multiple targets. We often have primary, secondary and tertiary targets, because sometimes it's hard to You just have one individual target and spend 100% of your focus on that one individual target, because then you might be missing an entire subset of individuals that you should be talking to. But just like Christine said, you want to really understand who you're talking to. And that goes across every you know, channel or medium that you could be connecting with somebody on whether it's going in a mass awareness play via let's say, social media, to an individual one on one phone call, you want to understand that target audience from every layer that you possibly can, so that you can reach the points that are most important to them, that builds an emotional and mental connection with them that get them to ultimately want to purchase your product. Because when we look at our research, 90% of individuals across the country make a purchase based on emotion over logic. And that is so vitally important when you're thinking about how to connect with somebody, that it isn't always just about the product that you're selling, it's about so much more than that, and connecting with them on a deeper level.

Steven Pesavento 11:15
Yeah, people they buy based on emotion, they make that decision on emotion, and then they go back and justify logically, so you absolutely need both. But you want to be able to hit them and hook them in that specific place. And I want to give some kudos to Danny and Christine, because they reached out to me cold over a year ago, they had a specific skill set, they had listen to advice I'd given to other young entrepreneurs who are looking to grow up or grow in this space. And they reached out and they said, Hey, I've got a specific skill set. And we went through this brand identity process. And it was absolutely instrumental in moving our business forward and really helping us discover some of the key pieces that were missing, and where to really accentuate the pieces where we were already successful. And so I just want to point out that if you guys are listening to this, and you feel like, I want to understand how to do this, well, great news, you should absolutely reach out to these guys that are really good at helping on that front. And so what I'd love to give for folks who are trying to understand their own identity for their brands, or for understanding who they're serving, let's talk about some of the questions that people might want to ask and answer themselves to really be able to understand what is the identity of the brand that they have, or that they're building?

Christine Bellish 12:41
Totally, and, and I love, I love that you went there, because that's really the first step in the process is, you know, doing a lot of soul searching and asking yourself a lot of questions. And honestly, for entrepreneurs out there, it can be a very challenging process, right to like, try to describe yourself and what you're looking to do. And also to be able to communicate what your unique selling proposition and you know, why somebody should partner with you over over partnering with somebody else. But a few of the first questions that you want to ask is like, hey, and like what do I have to offer? You know, and then also secondarily, you know, what's your purpose? And what is your why? And I think people talk about that a lot. You know, you've probably heard that. And I know that you've spoken about that a lot to Steven, what's your mission? What are your values? What are the principles that guide your behavior? What makes you unique? What do you have to offer?

Danny Bellish 13:34
You know, think that's a big one, just to pause for a second, what makes you unique is extremely important, because you think about this. And, you know, in any sector, especially in real estate investing, there's often a lot of players in that space. And there's a lot of competition and a lot of people trying to shine through. What is your unique value proposition, and your unique personality and tone and voice that's going to help you shine through through your competition?

Christine Bellish 14:07
Yeah, and I, you know, and Steven, just using, like our conversations as an example, I think another good way for people to think about it is, you know, what are their messaging pillars? And what sorts of stories and experiences have they had, that basically make them who they're who they are, right, like, all of the life experiences that you've had, and all of the perspectives that you've gathered, you know, over your experience, really are the things that make you unique, and those are the stories that you can use to drive these main points home and to connect with people in a way that's going to be more memorable, right? When you're telling something as a story, it's going to be more likely to stick with somebody than if you're just banging them over the head with a message.

Danny Bellish 14:51
And again, just to relate it back to our corporate world. This is what the biggest brands on the planet do. They are experts at storytelling And that's how they connect with their audience on an emotional level. They think about all of these stories and create all of these stories that tie back to their brand and the message that they want to portray. And they're able to convey the stories in a way that develops a deeper connection. And it really is so powerful when you compound these stories, especially for an individual entrepreneur or small business, to help people understand where you came from, and really develop that trust and credibility that you need in order to have brand loyalty for an extended period of time and not just one particular sale.

Christine Bellish 15:37
And I think another interesting thing, just to mention is that, you know, we're talking to a lot of entrepreneurs out here, and when you're an entrepreneur, you are your brand, you know, and so everything that you do is marketing, every time that you're public facing every time that you're having a conversation with a new person. That's marketing. Okay, everything from us being on this podcast right now. And Stephen, you being the host, this is marketing right now, public advertising as marketing, but also one on one individual conversations with people or marketing to and I think it's important for people to think about, you know, it's almost like a chicken or the egg thing like, are you going to define who you are first, and then talk about who you're trying to reach? Or are you trying to figure out who you're reaching first. And then you're trying to define who you need to be in order to reach those people. And I think the more that, you know, you can stay true to yourself, and still reach that target audience that you're looking to reach, the more successful that you're going to be.

Steven Pesavento 16:39
Wanted to pause from today's conversation to share something that's been heavy on my mind, as I'm talking with investor after investor. And I continuously hear this concern, it's the concern about inflation. We've seen some of the highest inflationary periods in the last 20 years up 7.5%. Some believe inflation is actually closer to 20%. But what does that mean for you what the core means when money is sitting in your bank account, or it's not an assets that are hedging against inflation, that you're actually losing buying power? So what does that mean? It means other things around us are getting more expensive. And the dollars that are sitting in your bank account are becoming less valuable. So what do you do about it? Well, one of the best hedges against inflation is investing in real assets, specifically, real assets like multifamily. And why is multifamily so powerful for hedging against inflation? Well, we've put together a phenomenal 30 minute purely educational webinar to be able to share with you why multifamily is such a powerful opportunity right now, why it makes sense to invest in a very hot market, because inflation is so much hotter, and exactly how you can get involved. Now, if you're interested in learning more and, and educating yourself and potentially having the opportunity to get involved and actually hedge against inflation yourself that I encourage you head over investormindset.com/start That's investormindset.com/start. And you can register for this 30 minute presentation, that's gonna be able to bring you through all of the reasons that you need to know and understand to avoid some of the biggest common pitfalls when it comes to investing, while also setting you up to invest to hedge against inflation, through and through, enjoy. And let's get back to the episode.

Steven Pesavento 18:34
Yeah, it's such a, it's such an important thing to underline, because many people, whether they're in their career, and they're an executive or business owner, sometimes people think, hey, well, this is someone else's department. And the truth is, it's really not as an individual person, regardless, if you're a doctor, a lawyer, a business owner, and executive, whether you're a project manager, whether you're getting coffee for somebody, every interaction you have is a marketing opportunity, where you're going to show up, and you're going to create your own individual brand about how people are going to think of you when you walk away. And so what can happen is you can either let that happen organically. Or you can understand what are those strengths and weaknesses or the things that you want others to think about and essential way. And then make sure that those are a part of the conversation in a organic and casual way. And so one of the things that was really beneficial about the work we did together, and I'm sharing that so that others that are listening can understand that this process can sometimes be difficult, but it's an iterative process that you can continue to work on is actually reaching down inside vulnerably pulling out some of those stories and standing next to the stories about yourself, who you are, what you're about and all of it's very authentic. It's all true. It's all exactly all about you. But as entrepreneurs and business owners, oftentimes we We can feel like we need to distance ourselves as the founder, Owner, executive team member for the brand of the company itself. While in reality, people want to build relationships with people. The reason why Richard Branson's Instagram has 10s, if not hundreds of millions of followers, compared to Virgin has probably, you know, a 10th of that is because people want to connect and have that interaction with a real person. And so when you can understand that, regardless of what your role is, in your firm, and what you're doing, then therefore, you can set yourself up better for success. And let's bring this back to investing so that you guys can understand how this plugs in, it's really important to be able to understand what's happening from a marketing perspective in the businesses that you're investing in. Because those who are really good at marketing are going to be really good at reaching the end customer, and therefore creating a much higher alpha a better return for you as an investor. So this is critical across the way whether you're running your own business, or you're an individual going to a networking event looking to connect to grow your career, it's absolutely critical to understand.

Danny Bellish 21:16
Yeah, totally agree. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. And I think one point that you made that is really crucial is that vulnerability piece, right? It's in a way, people nowadays, they don't need or want someone to be superhuman, right. And in fact, they see that as inauthentic and fake, right. And I think what you could see, you know, you mentioned Richard Branson, we could rattle off 10 other entrepreneurs are so successful celebrities, or people who are in the public eye, who often have these stories that they consistently go back to, that tells there, it doesn't always have to be rags to riches, but trials and tribulations and hurdles that they went through in their life that helped them get to where they are. And they're not always their proudest moments, right. You know, you often hear Dwayne The Rock Johnson talk about how he got let go from the NFL or the Canadian Football League and how it was his lowest point. And he had $11 in his pocket and how he just, you know, he lived with his mom and how he knew that that is what helped inspire him, everybody knows that people have inspiration stories, and that life isn't just, you know, going in one incline type of way. So it's important to just like you said, dig deep into who you are, be a little bit vulnerable with your audience, let them know that you've had highs and lows in your life. And that, you know, it took those trials and tribulations to get to where you are today, it helps build that brand identity, that trust that grit, that strength that you need in order to persevere through the next trial and tribulation.

Christine Bellish 23:09
And I think I think just to piggyback off of like you talking about some of like, the more famous celebrity entrepreneurs, when you think of these people, a lot of them are pretty polarizing, you know, they say some things that are pretty controversial. And, you know, I'm not, I'm not saying come out of the gate hat, like, like, you know, but But I do think that it is better to stand for something than to stand for nothing, you know, and, and their stats out there to actually I have a written down as a reminder, so 77% of consumers buy from brands who share the same values as they do, right? So people want to know where you stand, people want to know how you think and like, you might be afraid to go there, you might be afraid to share an opinion because you know, not everybody's gonna agree with you. But there are going to be people that out there that do agree with you, and you're going to build a stronger bond with those people. And it's really about the quality over the quantity at that point.

Steven Pesavento 24:04
And I think that is it's absolutely critically important to understand that what that message is, what that messaging is going to be and how you're going to communicate that. And what I love about marketing is that I never have really considered myself an artist, except in the kitchen. You know, I wanted to be a chef, like Emeril Lagasse, for so long. And I loved the fact that you could create something and somebody else could enjoy it. But that's what's really interesting about marketing is that it is actually an art there is something unique and different about each marketing piece that you're going to put together, the messaging and the creative that goes into it, but it's also a science. And that's what I think is really amazing is that no matter what side of the spectrum you're on, whether you're the creative or whether you're the logical you can succeed when you bring the other right people on your team, because when it comes to having those multiple targets of the different types of people you want to come interact with and the different types of people that you want to reach, and the different messages that you're going to use to reach them. It's all about putting together a concept, an idea, and then going out into the world and testing it. And now when a lot of people think of marketing, they're gonna think, Steven, well, you're you must be talking about an ad budget on Facebook. Well, I'm an executive in a company, I'm not looking to run ads on Facebook Well, ads on Facebook is a great way to test things. And it's very common in that space to be able to test messages through that method. But the same thing is true when you understand what is the message that you're carrying, in your career, or in your business, when you're having one on one conversations at the coffee cooler, or at a networking event, or at a conference. And you can change up that message depending who you're speaking to. And you can change up that message depending on how that message is resonating. And there's actually a process that you can follow to be able to actually do this. But what today, what we really want to do is inspire you to understand that marketing is more than what you might believe it to be. It's really a method of getting your message out there in a really effective way. But something I think that we we haven't talked about, or we haven't really addressed is this idea of what is a brand and why is it so important. And as a direct response marketer, there's two types of marketing that I really think about. There's brand marketing, and then there's direct response and direct response is I do an action and I look for a reaction. Based on that action, I send you a letter in the mail, and I'm looking to get a phone call, or I'm looking to get a purchase, or I'm looking to get you to opt in. And then each of those steps, I'm looking for a different reaction. Brand is different brand is about creating an identity in somebody's mind. And I know you guys are experts on the brand side. And they both have their own individual benefits and differences. But talk to us a little bit about why building that brand and understanding what the identity of your brand is so important. So

Danny Bellish 27:03
for brands, specifically, this is the way that I like to think about it. Brand is about having enough consistency in your messaging or your identity to build an association, right between what someone thinks about when they see your brand, or they hear from your brand. They think about something in particular, whether it's trust and credibility, whether it's delicious hamburgers, whether it's beautiful luxury cars, whether it's safety, you know that there's a number a plethora of different associations that you could want someone to build with your brand. But that's something that you really have to think about when you're building that brand identity is what are those associations pick three to five associations that you want someone to think about every time they think about your brand. And every time you put out any sort of message or have any communication with any audience, you have to think about those three to five associations that you want to build, and how are you weaving that theme and threading that through everything that you do. And I think that's what helps create brand identity and builds that whatever you want it to build over time. And that can also change just like you were saying, you do have to be adaptable, you do have to experiment with different messages, you do have to see what works and you have to consistently measure it. And that's that, you know, that fine line or that you know, beautiful blend of creativity in science that you can utilize here where you have to throw shit at the wall a little bit and see what sticks. But I think that there's a lot of science and measurement and brand studies that you can employ that can help show you where your lifts are, what creative is working, what's not, you also have to be extremely timely. And I think that all plays into what ends up being successful when you're messaging in accordance with what you want your brand identity to be.

Christine Bellish 29:16
And I think when we're talking about brands, we're talking about, you know, the higher up level in the marketing funnel, right? Like, we're talking about building a relationship with people over time, right, versus what you had mentioned before, Steven indirect response, which is, you know, later down the funnel where somebody is actually taking an action. So when you're when you're, you know, exposing somebody to your brands and you're helping somebody get to know your brands, what you're doing is you're building a relationship with that person, right? And the more that you communicate with that person and the more touch points that you have, which it's important to have multiple touch points, right. Like you had mentioned before, a lot of people think social media advertising, Okay, what about organic social media, like just regular posts on your social and media channels, are we talking about LinkedIn? Are we talking about Facebook? Are we talking about videos on YouTube? Right? Are we going to networking events, in person things too. So I think it's, you know, taking time to build a relationship with people. And depending on what the product or services and also just depending on the person, you know, they might take action sooner, or it might take them a longer time to take action. And so that's why it's so important to employ different strategies and reach people through different channels.

Danny Bellish 30:27
I think one last point that I'll just touch on quickly is, especially in the startup and entrepreneurial world, and we know this in real estate more than anything, referrals are massive portion of our business and how we bring on investors, and how, you know, the world gets more customers. And that has so much to do with brand, because that referral is not hearing from the horse's mouth from the brand itself. So that communication between the direct consumer and that referral is all about that brand image and that brand identity, so that it's not just a one to one messaging or communication, but that that message that brand identity is able to have tentacles and spread to a network that's well beyond your own.

Christine Bellish 31:21
Yeah, and I think, you know, building off of that to, when you do get that referral, right, if your friends tells you about something that you should check out, the first thing that you're going to do is you're going to go to their website, you're going to check their social media, you're going to listen to their YouTube videos, or podcasts or whatever. So that all goes back to marketing to right, if somebody is like, check this out, they're going to look you up online, and they're going to see where you're active. And that's why it's so important for you to be consistent in your marketing efforts.

Steven Pesavento 31:48
And just to kind of summarize what we've talked about here, we've talked first step is really understanding what's your objective? What are you doing? What do you want? Why do you want it? How are you going to go and communicate that out to the world? And then second, you're going to understand that audience, that's the who, who are you going to communicate to how do they need to be communicated, what's the messaging is number three. And then number four is the channel, you know, we're talking about YouTube, we're talking about in person conversations, we're talking about, you know, using any of these different channels, and then you measure and you repeat, you go through this process, you continue to try until you have the result that you're looking for. And then once you found that result, you really double down and put budget in time, effort, energy, and then you go and discover that somewhere else. And so a lot of the folks who are listening here are professionals, they're running businesses, you know, they're successful in their world, they're earning money, they're looking to invest in real estate, and they're probably not looking to become experts in marketing. Although I strongly encourage everybody to read more books on marketing, read more books on psychology, and to continue to learn so that you can direct other professionals, you guys have been instrumental in helping me hire and have some of the guidance of bringing on some great marketing professionals. While we were consulting together early on, talk to us a little bit about what other folks should know. And how do they go and find people who are good at this, so that they can actually run with it, knowing that they're not professionals themselves.

Danny Bellish 33:23
I love it. One quick thing that I wanted to say, based on what you just said, is, you might not be you might not have a startup business today. But what you do today, and how you represent yourself today to your network, and the people around you will affect anything that you want to do in the future. And, you know, just like you said, every communication, every person that you interact with on a regular basis is going to develop an idea of who you are, who your individual brand is. And that's helped us reach back out to people that, you know, were old clients or old bosses or, you know, and maintain that relationship. And they understood that we were credible, reliable, trustworthy, and just fun individuals that they might want to do business with in the future. So that that's just something I wanted to relate back to. So even if you're not an entrepreneur today, and you work for a company, don't think that you know, that might not change down the line, and that what you do today won't have an impact on what goes on then.

Steven Pesavento 34:32
But I want to jump in there before we answer that original question about how to go find these people is that everybody's marketing, let's just get it straight. Like if you think you're not marketing, today's the day that you change your belief about that, or you stop listening to the show, right? Because at the end of the day, like let's be real, you're marketing for that next position, your marketing for the politics in the organization that you're working in to get that raise when you put that resume together. This is a marketing lip Is the talks about the different things that are important to the audience, it's going to be on the other side. And so no matter who you are, or what you are doing currently today, your marketing, whether you realize it or not. And so when you do, what's amazing about that is it gives you so much power, it gives you so much understanding that by writing this in a little bit different way on my resume or writing this email that I'm hoping my boss will open, and really think differently of me and think of me in that light as that person who can lead the team or lead the company, each of those little micro interactions end up leading to the outcome you're looking for. And so when you can become a great marketer, when you can take some of the ideas we talked about today, and leverage them in your job, even if you're not a business owner, you can get a lot closer to where you want to be. Alright, step by step off my soapbox, and

Christine Bellish 35:52
I'm so glad that you said that, because I really feel like people try to distance distance themselves from thinking themselves as marketers or as salespeople, I feel like there's a negative connotation with it. But to your point, we are all doing it constantly, every day all the time, whether you're an entrepreneur, or you're working at a W two job, you are always marketing. So I 100% agree with you there. Get fired up? Yeah, let's go. So when we're when we're talking about trying to hire people to help you with your marketing efforts, and what to look for in those people, you know, I think some of its pretty straightforward, but like, Let's cover it anyway, like you want somebody who has experienced doing this before, right. And it needs to be experienced in doing whatever specific things you're looking to do, I think the first place that you need to get started is at the beginning of this conversation that we were having today, which is creating your brand first. And you know, somebody who specializes in brand identity is not necessarily going to be the same person who specializes in social media marketing, or posting for you, or in direct response, like you were talking about or paid advertising, you know. So I think you need to get somebody who specializes in something, or work with, you know, a larger firm that might have specialists on their team. So first things first, you want to come up with your brand's identity, you want to come up with your brand strategy, which is all about what we had talked about before, asking yourself those questions. Being able to clearly define who you are, what you're here to do, what you're all about who your target audience is coming up with things like logos, colors, color palette, messaging, all of that stuff, I would say that's the first place to get started. And then once you get that under your belt, I think then you take it to the next step. And you actually look for people who can help you implement your marketing through these different channels.

Steven Pesavento 37:46
Yeah, it's important to go find a teacher, somebody who is already really experienced in it and can guide you down the path. And they might not be the best marketer in the world, they might just be better than you. And through that process, you continue to improve and, and you continue to iterate. So this was really beneficial. It was really great diving in and catching up with you guys, I just have to re encourage anybody, don't be afraid to reach out to people that you look up to, because never know what's going to happen maybe a year and a half later, you're going to be on their podcast. And you'll be able to be responsible for making a big impact in that person's business. I want to thank each of you guys for making a huge impact for, you know, having the guts to reach out but more importantly, for becoming friends in the process. So where can people reach out to you or, or get in touch.

Danny Bellish 38:30
So you can follow us on social media at the Baelish team. So two L's embellish. You can also go to our website, www dot the Baelish team.com. And, yeah, we are super appreciative of you having us on here. And we're excited to talk about marketing and all of the great entrepreneurial business things to come.

Christine Bellish 38:51
Yeah, it was great catching up with you, Stephen. And we hope everybody took something away from our conversation today. And please feel free to reach out to us. If you have any questions about marketing, or you want to run anything by us, we'd be happy to chat with you more.

Steven Pesavento 39:02
Yeah. I love what we got into today. And I want to encourage the audience, think about what can you take away from today's conversation? How can you implement that in your life? You know, I get fired up when I think about people trying to put off doing something that I know can be so beneficial and impactful. So I encourage you to really think through what did I learn today? How could that impact my business? How could that make me be able to get closer to the things that I really want? And then go take action shoot me a message DM at Steven.Pesavento and let me know what that action was for some accountability. And we'll see you guys on the next episode.

Steven Pesavento 39:43
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