SUMMARY

Do you rely on just one source of income to help you live your lifestyle? For most this is not practical in order to live the freedom and lifestyle they want.  This was the realization that David Vernich had as he ventured into real estate.   Join Steven and David as they discuss the role he took on when investing, becoming financially independent to allow yourself to not live in a place of fear to do what you want to do, and the different vehicles investors can take to get to the same result. 

Key Takeaways

  1. A big driver for passive investing is not to have all your money coming from one source.
  2. Find people that are knowledgeable, you can trust, build a relationship with and start investing together.
  3. Utilize your strengths to mutually benefit.  Do what you are good at and let them do what they are good at. 
  4. There’s a level of self ownership and confidence that comes along with knowing that you can make decisions not from a place of fear, but confidence when this passive income is coming in.
  5. Coming to terms with the fact that there is good debt and bad debt will help you alleviate fears of passive investing. 
  6. Like the stock market, sell properties that have appreciated and deploy that capital into a different market in real estate. 

Resources Mentioned

Interested in connecting with other like-minded individuals? Then join our VonFinch Private Capital Network.  Learn more at http://www.vonfinch.com/invest

About our Guest:

David Vernich is a commercial lender with more than three decades of experience in the banking industry. In 2007, he partnered with other investors to purchase real estate and began his journey to generate passive income. David now owns more than one hundred homes in Tennessee and is passionate about helping others reap the benefits of passive income in their lives.

Episode Transcription

Steven Pesavento 00:05
This is the Investor Mindset podcasts and I'm Steven Pesavento. For as long as I can remember, I've been obsessed with understanding how we can think better, how we can be better, and how we can do better. And each episode we explore lessons on motivation and mindset for the most successful real estate investors and entrepreneurs in the nation.

Steven Pesavento 00:28
Alright guys, welcome back to the Investor Mindset podcast. I'm your host Stephen Pesavento and each week, we share mindset tips, and real estate investing strategies to help you take your business and your investment portfolio to the next level. Today is no different. I've got an amazing guest in the studio today. Shaahin Cheyene is with us who has an incredible background, we're gonna dive into a lot of that and more how're you doing today? Shaahin. Awesome honor to be on. Super, super excited to dive in. You have a very fascinating background before you started investing and creating businesses and creating lots of different lines of revenue that allow you to live the life you live today. But tell us a little bit about your story. Give us a little introduction to how you showed up as this man today. I know you wrote an incredible book about this experience. But tell us briefly, where and who you are.

Shaahin Cheyene 01:26
Again, that's super interesting. And I love the topic of your shows. Well, because I'm a huge fan of passive income streams. And my favorite passive income stream is really real estate. I've done a lot of sexy businesses in the past a lot of exciting businesses, probably the most exciting businesses. And at the end of the day, my real estate investments are the most exciting for me, and they're the most frickin boring, pretty much for everybody else. Like nobody walks into a party, and is like, I've got 100 unit apartment condo building in Orlando, and I want to hear the sexy story. But the funnest thing in the world for me actually, as far as an investment standpoint is real estate. With that said, My story started in the early 1990s, where I left home being coming here as an immigrant from Iran, I was born in Iran. And my family came here to the United States. We were poor, we didn't have any money. And we started, you know, my folks started raising their family in a up and coming part of town that became affluent. And I saw a lot of wealth all around me. And I wanted access to that I wanted all those things. I wanted the beautiful brunette and the Porsche and the big houses. But there was no path to that for me. So what I did was, I burned my bridges, I left home at the age of 15 and got into the electronic music scene, kind of trying to figure out where I was going to find my fame and fortune. Turns out people really liked drugs. And really, it is a true fact. And I came up with a legal version of the hottest party drug of all time, ecstasy, called it herbal ecstasy, basically made it in my girlfriend's at the time kitchen. And turned out, people loved my stuff, just as much as the real stuff in many cases. And before my 21st birthday, ended up doing over a billion dollars in revenue. And I've written about this in my book billion how I became king of the thrill pill cult, which is on Amazon. And there's an audio book and whatnot about the story. And we just started the making of a motion picture. So I'm super excited about that.

Steven Pesavento 03:54
It's such an interesting place to start. Because you know a lot of people when they're young, they sell drugs in order to pay for college or to make money. I know many people have that experience. And but you you actually found a way to do exactly that. But legally, and to be able to create massive amounts of money, really on the tailwinds of something that everybody wants. They want to have a good time they want to let loose. They want to be free.

Shaahin Cheyene 04:18
Yeah, look, but we're immigrants, Jewish Iranians migrating to this country at the worst possible time for Jewish Iranians to migrate to the United States. And like many minority groups, we had to struggle, nothing was handed to us. And my dad took all kinds of odd jobs and I had to do what I could do to just survive. And so in school, I realized that I could hustle a little bit harder than the other kids work harder than the other kids and supply what the kids needed. And that would give me a little bit of extra cash. Fact was most of the stuff that I was doing. my adolescence would be considered illegal by those day standards. Yeah, right. And I would always get caught and I would always get busted. So I realized that I was really good at making money, terrible crime, horrible crime, crime was not a thing. partaken. And so fast forward to me being 15. And looking at the options in front of me, which really to most people wouldn't seem like a lot. But remember, I dropped out of high school, I left home, I had absolutely nothing to my name, slept on the beach, slept in abandoned buildings wherever I could, until I figured out my thing. I realized that my adolescence taught me an important lesson and that I'm not good at crime, I should not be doing crime. So that's where I found the workaround. I thought, Man, if I could come up with an alternative to ecstasy that was illegal, that was natural that we could sell everywhere through GNC through 711, through Urban Outfitters, through the record stores, through the sex shops through everywhere, could make a lot of money. And that's that's how we did it. And initially, I started in the electronic music scene, what I did was I saw an untapped avenue of distribution that nobody else had seen before. And I capitalized on that, you know what that was? Steven?

Steven Pesavento 06:20
What was it? Yes. You saw that people didn't want to be doing hard drugs in or they couldn't find them. And so they're looking for something

Shaahin Cheyene 06:29
close, close. That's pretty good. The drug dealers, most people saw these people as criminals, and did not see a distribution circle there, but rather just an avenue for illicit crime. I, on the other hand, saw them as a beautiful distribution circle that was organized, they had access to capital, they had a loyal customer base, and they were underutilized, especially during that time, because the supply of drugs had dried up. So I went in through all the drug dealers in the electronic music scene, and I said, guys, I got a plan for you, we're gonna start selling these legal pills, and I'm going to be your supplier. And it wasn't that easy, Steven.

Steven Pesavento 07:14
I love what I what I love about this is this is a great example, right? On the investor mindset we talk about, there's really three pieces to money, you got to know how to make money, you got to know how to multiply money, and you got to know how to manage money. And a lot of people screw up, they start trying to manage money, and they are trying to save a bucket Starbucks, but they're making 40 grand a year, they're doing it in the wrong order. Right. And what you're talking about here is a phenomenal example of how to make more money. This is the business entrepreneur angle of, hey, let me find a problem that's in the market. Let me find one that has a huge addressable market. And then let me figure out, Hey, how can I get this new product out to the world? And so as a listener, when you're hearing this, you can think to yourself, Hey, how can I apply this to go and focus on making money so that I can be active running a business, maybe getting out of what you're doing, maybe solving the problem of surviving, which you were in, you had a no option, but figure this out type of mentality, I also lived in and grew up in a similar place, or put myself in that kind of a place. But from that place, you can figure out almost anything. And you did, and you made a bucket load of money doing

Shaahin Cheyene 08:27
it. Yeah, that's true. We made close to a billion dollars gross revenue. Now. Here's the interesting thing. Most people believe the line that they've been fed, the big companies, the corporations, the education system, the government, your parents, everybody wants you to believe that if you just play by the rules, you do what you're told that at the end of the day you will have and I hate this word, security.

Steven Pesavento 08:57
Yeah.

Shaahin Cheyene 08:58
The fact is there seven, 8 billion other people in the world. And sadly, not everybody is going to have that security. So what does that build, it builds competition, not only that unfair competition, so who rises to the top those with an unfair advantage. And so, I learned early if I wanted to be successful, I had to figure out a way to have an unfair advantage to excel. It's just like now where I'm in the Amazon space and I teach people how to create businesses that create predictable recurring revenue streams by becoming Amazon sellers. And by the way, now is the best time to get involved in Amazon specially during this consumer products goods dip that we're having now in the coming recession, more and more people are going to be buying stuff on Amazon because of pricing. But with that said, I teach people that if you play by the rules you play by the rules of these mega corporations. Isn't what they tell you and you watch the videos that they give you, it's not going to help you, it's going to help you maintain their bottom line and their status quo. The guys that I know that are making seven, eight figures, nine figure exits, selling their companies, after two years building up supplement companies building up natural products, companies, building up home health care, whatever companies, Home Goods, companies, on these platforms are guys that aren't playing by the rules. So what I realized early on is that, hey, I got to do something that the other guys are doing, I got to bring some extra value. And I've got to create multiple streams of income so that if anything happens to one of them, I can still thrive with the other ones. And that's worked very well for me in the past, man 30 plus years I've been doing business. And that

Steven Pesavento 10:54
gives you so much power, because by having that diversification, you can be in a much stronger place, if one of your businesses no longer is creating that kind of income, or one of your investment streams is no longer producing, you have other ones that you're being able to be supported by. So let's let's shift gears here. One of the things that we talk about a lot as we define financial independence as the moment that your passive income number reaches your target, and the most simple target for most people is their passive income is twice as much as their expenses, so they have more than they need. And that money can keep compounding. So from that perspective, and that definition, as a business owner, I can imagine you found yourself in this place. When did you realize that you had made it and that you are truly financially independent, that that passive income that you would invest? It has finally hit that point where you're set, and everything you need is covered? Yeah,

Shaahin Cheyene 11:57
probably when I had a million in the bank, right, but it went fast for me during my youth. And I was like, by the way, again, anyone that's interested, it's billion how I became king of the throw pole calls, I gotta plug the book. So anybody wants to check it out? You know, check it out. We just launched the audiobook. So people love that. And I told the story. So I was sitting in my office, I was in my late teens, you know, maybe 1819. And my dog at the time, knocks over a pile of papers. Now what I had done, is I realized my thank you, Elon Musk, I realized my employees, which I had 200 of at the time, had gotten too comfortable. Everybody was too comfortable with all the nice messes of the office. And believe me, it was nowhere web 2.0 3.0 Google offices, we had just a normal office. So I hired a team of movers to come in at night. And they took out every stick of furniture, every desk, I said, You guys are going to be standing you guys are going to be producing. And the guys like what do you want to do with the water coolers? I said, they're yours, take them. There's no time for water, there's no time for coffee, take out the coffee machines. All right, we're going to succeed. And that's what we're about. Because there started to be a lot of companies that were competing against us. And my team had gotten complacent. They've gotten too comfortable. And I remember sitting in my office and I had, I was the only one with a chair. I had these French Lotus chairs that I had made for me in France. And they were beautiful, right, and I'm making millions of dollars. And so I was sitting in this beautiful, like read 10 low chair, and my dog ran into the room and knocked down a pile of papers. And I remember looking into this pile. And there was a cheque that I just there was a pile of stuff that was like checks, there was like letters that I haven't opened. I mean, everything was everywhere. I was so busy during this time. And I picked up this one cheque. And I looked at it and it was a check for a million dollars from a Japanese vendor. And I looked at it and I said, and I just put it back in the train, I went back to doing whatever I was doing. And I realized that that time that a million dollars was so insignificant to me that I was like I must have really made it because a year or two back like I would have been happy for 100 bucks. I didn't have 100 bucks to go out there and buy a buy a veggie burrito or whatever it was I hate at the time. Yeah. And now I just picked up a pile with a million dollar check. And I put it in the maybe later category of

Steven Pesavento 14:30
edible. It's an incredible place to be to have a business that's creating that kind of income, that you're thinking to yourself. I'm not even focused on this because I'm already there. But I want to shift the I want to shift the focus here a little bit because what you're talking about and what you keep focusing on is active income. Your you got people your grind and you're busting your butt. They're working for you. You're thinking as a business owner. Let's say you get hit by a bus. You're alive. You're in the hospital. You got a wife and kids Is your businesses are no longer producing money? What was the point where you hit? Where are those investments that you've made whatever they might be, had gotten you to that point where, you know, man, everyone that I love is taken care of, even if my business is dissolved today. Have you hit that point?

Shaahin Cheyene 15:17
Yeah, I have. And I've actually done that many times in my life. And it was, I think the first time I hit that point, was when I made my first million bucks. And it was the first like, real time where it was like, man, if this payment comes through, or the million in the bank free and clear, like taxes paid a million bucks, and the money

Steven Pesavento 15:36
you invest that money into, because having it in the bank is not producing income, right? It's not passive. But what did that go into? Were you a stock guy, was it these condos and real estate, you're talking about? Like, what was that thing that you started pumping money into that said, you know, what, it's not going all into the business is going to go somewhere else. And I'm going to somehow get a benefit from that.

Shaahin Cheyene 15:57
More businesses. So I always believed that first and foremost, the highest value that you're going to receive for your money is going to be investing in your own business, assuming you've got a course of business. So if I could take that million, and turn my revenue from a million a year to 2 million, or 3 million a year, or 4 million a year, I'm gonna do that. And it's a better, more stable, more control by like control over my investments, my better more controllable investment than any of that other stuff. Now, I took the next million and I bought some real estate, I took the next million man, I had a lot of real estate, I had a real estate on the beach in Malibu celebrity row, I bought office buildings and warehouses all throughout the Los Angeles area and rented them out and love the cash flow. I bought buildings in downtown Los Angeles, and love that cashflow. So but even those you don't want when we talk about passive income, I think there has to be a, you've got to, like preempt that with like more passive or less passive, but I don't believe that anything is

Steven Pesavento 17:08
true. There's an active, yeah, there's active income, or there's passive income. So if you're buying that piece of real estate, and you're the one who's making the decision on who's gonna manage it, and you got to make phone calls, you got to do anything related to that. Yeah. And that's semi that's semi active or semi passive, whichever one you want to look at it, right.

Shaahin Cheyene 17:27
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, look, I think everything takes work. And as

Steven Pesavento 17:31
a business owner, you're a control guy. So you're not really you have yet to get to that point of wanting to give control to somebody else. So that and in return, you could receive the benefit, but also to be free of having to even think about it. Yeah,

Shaahin Cheyene 17:48
and I'll I'll put this in the in the pot that we're talking about, I think of every product that I develop, and I've developed 1000s of products, award winning products, products that have made billions of dollars products that have made hundreds of 1000s of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars, I've done all the different kinds of parts, every product I think of as a piece of real estate, and every company that I build, I think of as a piece of real estate. And really, when you look at most entrepreneurs, and you look at their net worth, not their liquid worth, but their net worth, the majority of their worth is going to be wrapped up in the value of the last company, their active company, that their activity. And most entrepreneurs don't think about that. Because we get involved in business, we start getting some cash flow, we get excited. And we're like, Okay, this is great. I'm making all this money. But really, the value is in the multiple of your EBITA that you're going to get at the time of an exit. And that's really where where you see it. And if you think about it like that is your perspective on the businesses that you have changed. So now like, I teach people how to build these Amazon businesses, and they're like, can I get to 50 grand a month? Can I get to 100 grand a month? I'm like, Yeah, I've got companies that do seven figures a month, it's not not impossible, you know, at the end of the day, it's going to be the fact that you're going to be able to take that company and sell it for five times 10 times the multiple of your earnings. So when you look at it like that, you're gonna make so much more from that, especially if you play your cards, right, you have your tax structure, correct, then you know, the little paycheck that you're getting at the end of the day. So now when I start companies, I don't even like I don't care about the payroll. I don't like I barely look at it like my accounts tell me hey, you got to take a paycheck. I'm like, Alright, cool.

Steven Pesavento 19:44
I don't even this is a great example for the listeners just to see the difference between an investor versus an operator. Right now shine is 100%. Speaking as an operator, he almost doesn't even really believe in the idea of investing without having that control of being an operator being that person who is taking their time and exchanging it, their time, their creativity, their experience, their relationships, all of those things to exchange that in order to create a greater return. Because for being an operator being in that position, you get control, and you get the opportunity to greatly increase the potential return. Now, if you're just doing one business, then you're putting a lot of your eggs in one basket, and I do recommend for business owners, the best investment return they can make is going to be in their business. But at a certain point, it does make sense to start taking some chips off the table. So it makes making sense to start funneling money away and real estate's a vehicle for me, I invest in many other different things, including other businesses, some that I am active in, and some that I am, I have nothing to do with the day to day management, I'm truly just an investor. But it's important for you as a listener to understand where you want to be. And this is part of coming up with that vision of what that future looks like where you're going to spend your time where you're going to invest and what type of life you want to create. Because as a an entrepreneur, as someone who's in the business, operating day to day, you're going to end up putting time in there, but you're going to get a great return. And so it's just about deciding what it is that you want out of it in the position of making money and multiplying money, but being active in it, following the kind of path that Shane is talking about is really can be a phenomenal path.

Shaahin Cheyene 21:36
Yeah, and I've got real estate that I just buy. And I've got a management company that manages it. And it's glorious, I don't have to do much once the deals are acquired. Generally speaking, if you want to get the really good deals, it's more difficult, because a lot of work has to go into finding those deals. And when you find those deals, you got to be at the right play, there's a component to it, which is being at the right place at the right time. And there's a limited deal flow that you can get into whereas with your business, it's unlimited deals, right? If you've got a business that's generating revenue, you've got good churn, like, everything's going well, then you can just keep presumably pumping money and growing it exponentially. Right. And that's how companies Yeah, become huge. With with real estate, if I tell you, dude, you know, if we were if we were in, let's take take an area, for example, let's say Orlando, 2009. Right, you'd be able to go up there and pick up single family homes for 20 grand 30 grand in some cases, that would rent for $1,000. Imagine the return on that. That's insane, right? I picked up a ton of those back in those days. Right? Do I want to duplicate that now? Well, those same properties now are three or $400,000. So that game is done. Like I met a guy the other night, real estate billionaire. And he started out and I asked him, how'd you do it? And he said, Look, I was in the East Coast. I, you know, went on an island somewhere, I came back and someone told me that real estate's the way to go. So that's what I decided to do. He decided to get into real estate, he borrowed $24,000, in a very sketchy part of town. And he bought 100 unit apartment building. And he built from there and he created was going Yeah, and he created a portfolio of assets, right, that led to that now are worth, you know, probably several billion dollars. I mean, the dudes house when you get into the front door, by the time you walk into the living room, it's 15 minutes later, someone's got to escort you in there. We're talking incredible wealth. But so I'm talking to this guy. And I'm like, All right.

Steven Pesavento 23:53
So again, just just to be clear, we're talking, that's an operator, this person is an operator, they're not an investor, not only you might be investing, they might be investing in real estate, but they're the one going and finding the deal. They're the one funding the deal. They're the one making the decisions for the property manager to do their job, right. As an investor, you're the one putting up the money, and you're passive. So you're essentially finding a business owner, who they're doing that all day every day. And they require that and then at this person at this point of this, this billionaires life, you know, maybe he's not an operator, or maybe he is I bet he's got a bunch of businesses, but he's probably also investing because he's got so much money. He's like, I just need other people to start being in charge

Shaahin Cheyene 24:37
of it. This dude still operates which I was I was pretty impressed by like he'll still buy but you know, when you have that level of capital, you can get in on deals that you and me could never get in on right. So like if I got brokers called Beverly Hills brokers, Malibu brokers calling me all the time and they're like, hey, Shaheen, we got this property. You know, it's like, twice a million bucks, but like the guys distressed you can get For like, 19 million bucks, and I'm like, cool, but that's still like he's like, but it's gotta be a cash deal. And I'm like, cool, but that's still 19 You know, million bucks a month, a guy like that can come in and go, You know what, guys, I'll give you 15 on that. And all cash right now No, no contingency, no escrow nothing, pick it up for 15 sit on it for a year to do nothing. I mean, I've seen these things empty all the time, you were in Hawaii, $50 million houses empty 20 million or house empty, they sit on it, and then you know, then the cash out, they take the tax, they take the tax advantage for a few years. And then they sell and they make 20. Man, the guy just made 5 million bucks didn't do anything. Right? That's pretty that's pretty passive, right? Because he's just taking risk. But I don't know it, there's risk count as as far as, as far as like your equation in being active and being passive. Active? Yeah,

Steven Pesavento 25:51
I would say not taking risk is not necessarily active, there's different levels of risk in taking and making a passive investment. But if you're the one who's making the decisions and pulling the strings and finding the deal, you're active, you're going to do that you're gonna hire the property manager, they're gonna call you to tell you that they got to fix something in the property or there's a problem. If you're in that position to make that ultimate decision, you're active. If you're the guy who writes the check and collect 70 or 80% of the profit, because you're the guy with the money, like, like the very ultra rich, rich do or people who can start to understand how to create these type of opportunities for themselves, then you can be in that position to get that benefit. One of the things I like about you, and really what you're all about is I can tell you, you're like a born and bred entrepreneur, and I can tell that you are training and coaching people on the power of entrepreneurship. So tell the audience because it's clearly something that is so near and dear to your heart, and you're really inspired to help share that entrepreneurial vision and dream with others. How can they go about doing that? And why is the traditional corporate world no longer the way of the future?

Shaahin Cheyene 27:06
Yeah, I feel like there's a percentage of the population where you're better off just getting a job and working for somebody and banking on that paycheck and living your life for the rest of us. were largely unemployable. I am incapable of working for somebody on their terms and their time, I just won't do it. I'd rather sit on the beach and sip a coconut, right? Hey, look, I've lived my life to this point, being 47 years old, where I don't have to do that anymore. I can, I've got fu money I can do what I like to do when I want to do with who I want to do it, how I want to do it the definition of freedom. Yeah. But ultimately, I think that you do have to create your life you have to become, and I speak for myself, a lifestyle architect, where I design my life in a way where I have access to that freedom. And part of that is having more passive streams of income. So now, I teach people how to do that. I believe that in the past, you were able to have one business and that business would run your life and you could pass it on to your family. And that was kind of the way that things worked. And for me, when I launched my first product or blacks to see that I write about in my book billion. I thought that was it. And there was a period after that where I was like, Man, are my best days behind me, but I make more money now, like per year, then and that I keep than I did the entire time in that company. And the reason is because I've got so many different businesses going and this is what I'm heading towards, I feel for me, especially in the future, that the paradigm has shifted, and the way the wealth is created. And the wealth will be created as we move forward is through multiple streams of income, some more passive, some less passive, some active some real estate, some some in stocks, you know, as the Tesla stock is tumbling today, but I think that's going to pick up eventually. And you know, you have to be able to diversify. But at the end of the day, you have to have something that can be that long shot, right? That can be that thing that could end up like building out, you know, a lifestyle for you. And then there's a thing that you work on that you hustle on because you love to do it but it also brings you some cash maybe that's the thing that you live on. And then you've got like real estate investments and real estate portfolio, but having a healthy mix of this stuff, I think is the only security moving forward specially in the next three to five years, is making sure that you're diversified. And having cash ready, like at your fingertips for when a crazy deal comes up is really, you know, so many people have been made wealthy by the ability to seize opportunities. And imagine how many opportunities were lost because people didn't have their stuff together when those opportunities presented themselves. And so I think there's nothing wrong with having cash, like being liquid and having cash at your disposal, waiting for that incredible opportunity.

Steven Pesavento 30:42
Yeah, well, what I really like about what you're underlining here Shaahin is that you're talking about the importance of having multiple different types of streams. Now, there's going to be people who aren't going to want to be entrepreneurial, and they're going to want to kind of go a different path. And they really just want to be free to just live the life that they dream about, maybe it isn't quite as big or maybe it's big. But, you know, it doesn't require that same thing. But for a lot of people, what you'll find and you know, you're a very wealthy man, and you have many wealthy friends and many of my wealthy friends, what we talk about is that most extremely wealthy people, they got wealthy by building a business, they got wealthy by having something that created an outrageous return on investment. And so you're absolutely right. And for the rest of those people who maybe aren't creating that massive return, it's about taking some of those pieces off the table as you go. But really understanding that you've got to take back control of your life, you can't rely on a gold watch or a 401k, to be able to retire on Shaahin, so many people are still stuck in that mindset. So what do you say to those people who are on the edge? And obviously, you've got a great strategy that you guys teach and share with people? What do you say to those people who they know they need to take action, but they haven't yet made that change, to go take control of their life and their income?

Shaahin Cheyene 32:11
Yeah, maybe maybe you're not ready for it, maybe you should just frickin quit and go out there and get a job. Honestly, there's a lot of people, and I look at the cost of of self help of this tick tock generation where people are like, goout there and get it and you can do it and be the best. Maybe you just suck. And I say this, honestly, because I feel like people really have to get to know themselves. Now, it doesn't mean that you suck forever, and that you're a waste of space, it just means that you suck and you know, you suck, and you have to work on some things before you can get there. Right. And I talk about this often at the temple of Delphi, one of the inscriptions was ne Vuitton, which means Know thyself, right? Why? Why these guys could have put anything they wanted to up on on this, like incredible temple on this mount. And what they put is Know thyself, right? And you think about it, and that means, okay, you got to know your strengths. But you got to know your weaknesses. More importantly, right? And if we know that if we know, dude, I suck at so many things, right? But I'm really good at a couple of things. And I know the things I'm really good at, and I know how to capitalize on those. That's incredibly powerful. So if somebody is stuck, there's a reason why you're stuck. And that reason might be that you suck, that you're really not as good as you think that you are in those things. And the true measure on how good you are at those things is in the market. The Marketplace will show you through money in your bank account how excellent you are. If you're like, Dude, I am the best effing artist in the world. Look how amazing my paintings are, but I'm broke. Well, dude, you're obviously not that good. The market begs to differ with you. Okay, so it doesn't mean that the art you're making isn't isn't beautiful, it just means that it's not commercially viable. And our world, the world of commerce, the world of business, which is what we're talking about, is about having the validation in your bank account. And the first step is knowing yourself, knowing your strengths and knowing your weaknesses. And the next step is doing something about it or being resolved not to, there's nothing wrong with being a teacher or a bus driver and just living a normal life. I respect people like that, that are resolved to be that way. Right? At least there's no like false ambition of like, I'm gonna go out there and have the jacuzzi with the Bugatti and all that stuff, but they're just living their best lives and they're good people and their family people and that's the way that's the way the world works. And that's okay, but if you're somebody who has ambition, the first thing you need to do is find 10 Friends, or 10 people close to you and be like, be incredibly rough. And tell me what you think of me. What are my weaknesses? What are my strengths? And why haven't I made it? Why has JoJo made it, and I haven't made it and be honest with me. And what you will hear will shock you. And you have to you have to take it to heart. Right? A lot of the stuff is being in the right place at the right time. It's a process and a system I call synchronicity. And in order to have synchronicity, you have to be in flow. It's what chicks that Mihai wrote about in his book flow. It's about being able to create a state for me, where I am at my highest level of performance once once. Once I get in that state, where I'm in my highest level of performance, what chicks that Mihai considers flow, then I can achieve synchronicity, which is being at the right place at the right time having an idea, and the guy that can actuate that idea is sitting across the room from me, and we talk and a deal is made. It's that kind of flow that comes into your life, when you get to know yourself, when you get to realize, man, I am an amazing storyteller. I'm an amazing salesman, but I absolutely suck at graphic design. Cool. Now I can do something with that. The problem comes with our illusions about who we are and our belief that the world owes us something that we are entitled, because of our our belief about the way we think the world should be. That's the greatest problem, I think in the mindset of most entrepreneurs is incongruence. And people get upset about that stuff. People are like, Dude, I expected the world to be like this. And the world is like that. I went out and I came out with this product. And I don't understand why nobody's buying my product. Nobody's coming to my store. Nobody's doing this. It's like it's because you suck.

Steven Pesavento 37:01
I love I love the tough love, because I think a lot of people are not used to hearing it. And the truth is, there's a reason that you're not succeeding at the top level. Either you have not put in enough time and effort and tried enough times, or you haven't received the feedback that this is not the right path for you. So I think that is a amazing thing to really be able to take in. If it's hard for you to hear, it's even more important for you to hear it truly shine. It's been awesome getting in to this with you. I highly recommend you guys go out and buy his book billion. How I became the king of the thrill pill called you can grab a lot on Amazon and on audiobook as well. Shaahin, how else can people get in touch with you if they desire to?

Shaahin Cheyene 37:49
Yeah, check us out on Instagram. It's at hacking grow rich, you can check out our YouTube channel. I think we're up to about 70,000 subscribers now at the Hack and Grow Rich podcast where I host a weekly show with my co host Bart Baggett.

Steven Pesavento 38:03
Awesome. Well, it was great having you on it was great diving in. And I highly encourage the listeners to really think hey, what can I take away from today's conversation? How can I apply that in my business or in my investing portfolio? Thanks so much. We'll see you on the next episode. Today's episode is sponsored by von Finch capital. If you're interested in investing alongside me in the same type of real estate opportunities that I personally invest in, then head over to VonFinch Capital and join their private investor network. You can do so at vonfinch.com/invest. Join me on that next deal. I look forward to seeing you on the inside. You're listening to the investor mindset podcast. If you liked what you heard, make sure to rate review, subscribe and share it with a friend. Head over to the investor mindset.com to join the insider club where we share tools and strategies from the top investors and entrepreneurs and how to take it to the next level.

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Steven Pesavento has always been obsessed with understanding how we can think better, how we can be better and how we can do better. He is an active real estate investor who curates Commercial Real Estate Investments for clients.

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